Community: Message List - Is it just me.. or???

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 21:18:15 GMT

variaxlover wrote:

Hey Neal, I'm afraid I've never heard of the DriveRack+, but from what I've read about the StageScape it should NOT require the L6 speakers to do its magic. That would be a travesty, in my opinion. There has to be someone at Line 6 willing to answer that question!

Now that the M20d mixer unit has finally been officially released, I guess we'll all find out if your supposition was accurate.

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:35:35 GMT

I'll come back because I really MISS THE GREAT ITALIAN FOOD, but you'd have to arrange for someone to take care of all the winter weather crap I hated once I got out of garde school. Snow was always great fun back then - snow days were GREAT DAYS! Sleigh riding and some snow shoveling, but it was a fair trade. Then into HS and then getting a car, plus a part time job, snow was no longer fun, it just plain s**ked!!! Then into the world of trying to get to work because WORK had NO SNOW DAYS!!

If you can work the winter situation out - I'll come back. And the first thing I would do is have some REAL PIZZA AGAIN!!

Take care,

Neal

PS - I do not know why more cover band people like myself are not using Line 6 gear. It works great and it allows you to sound like ANYTHING. not sure why a company that is NOT a "one trick pony" can't get people to use their gear?? I love my gear and always have. The PA stuff is going to be a HUGE uphill battle and depending on how much $$$ was involved, it might cause serious damage to the company if it falls flat.

That reminds me - it also seems that Line 6 doesn't care about PERCEIVED VALUE, only the money they get from wholesale purchases. I tried explaining this to a few employees once, and it seemed as if I were talking to deer caught in headlights. This is a HUGE PROBLEM along with the others we've already covered.

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 13:38:02 GMT

Well I am happy to hear you experienced the corporate mentality and understand it as well as I do. Congrats for getting out of it!

My sister-in-lawis a working musician for many years in the NJ/NY area. she also teaches music at two colleges. So I know quite a few of the people in the area that play various gigs around here. I ran a DJ and Video business for many years and sold it in 2000. So I get exactly what you mean on price, economy and what working bands can afford.

By the way not ONE of the working musicians I know who play out for a living use a Variax, JTV or a DT25. I also see no way they will be buying this PA.

I agree on Reagan. You know Neal, you can always come home to NJ!

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:42:07 GMT

They are gearing the PA system to bands who have to run the PA themselves because they don't have enough to pay for a PA person or would like to save the money by doing it themselves.

What blows my mind is what research could they have done to come up with this strategy???

I'm IN several cover bands and the pay is as bad as the economy. Gas prices are getting close to $4.00 per gallon and the price I wrote previously is the MINIMUM cost for a complete Line 6 PA system from ANY retailer.

I also know for a FACT that most chain stores won't stock the whole system and might not even stock the console. The price point is too high. Not saying this tech is not worth the price, but it's not worth the price for the target market Line 6 is trying to get. Anyone like me could tell them that the idea is terrific, but the price is nearly impossible to afford. The average price bands get around here for a four hour show bringing their own sound & lights is $400.00, but more common is only $300.00. Which means that a band would have to play 20-30 gigs taking no pay for themselves just to save up to buy a system they will never hear until they get it in their hands - UNLESS you live near Calabasas, CA where Line 6 HQ is and the PA is on display.

I already know the biggest complain so far without anyone even hearing or touching a single unit. NOT ENOUGH AUX SENDS!! They have 4 XLR sends. Most snakes are TRS balanced, not XLR. PLUS just like the L6 Link issue - you CAN NOT use XLR cable for this L6 Link stuff. you need TRUE DMX 3-pin cable. Not a single snake in the world has DMX cable built into it off the shelf. Which means you either leave the console on stage, and get an iPAD 2.0 or newer and the Line 6 app to walk out front and remotely control the console that you started setting up on stage. OR you put the console out front and buy 100' lengths of 3-pin DMX cable. You will need a minimum of SIX four auxs and two mains, not including all the shorter DMX cables you need to hook the entire system together with itself for FULL functionality.

One other thing I asked and got no answer to. This console does quite a bit, but it does not do anything remotely close to what a dbx DriveRack+ does. No time aligning, no ready made third party FOH formulas like the dbx unit has. I'm sure it might not be needed if you have Line 6 speakers, but what if you're like me and want to try the console and will be hooking it into my mains & monitors? No automation there. So what time saving will there be for anyone without a full Line 6 system. Only on REPEAT set ups in places the band plays more than once. it CAN recall set ups that you can save internally or to a thumb drive. THAT WOULD save time, but even room acoustic change from day to day and week to week. Still might have to do some tweaking like usual. Now it's back to no real time saving.

Anyway - I've spent waaaay too much time thinking about this system in the hope that I might be consider as a Beta tester. Since I'm not in the HQ area, I'm automatically eliminated. This thinking is a BIG MISTAKE for EVERYONE who has the level of PA experience I have NOT to give a console to test drive.

Sorry for the small book - take care,

Neal

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 04:21:49 GMT

Go rent the movie Office Space and you will understand it better!

Don't have to rent...I lived it for 15 years in non-Fortune 20 companies. I have patents on procedures that saved tens of thousands of dollars in various corporate the fields I've worked in, but I STILL had to go toe to toe with that Corporate Mental Illness every single time.

I finally said ENOUGH and began working for myself.

NOW gasoline is going up somewhere near $5.00 per gallon and "WE THE PEOPLE" are standing by and letting it happen...AGAIN!!! I wish I could resurrect Ronald Reagan. He was the ONLY president who actually DID something about the oil BS. But that is a completely different topic and I will stop myself there.

Yep - 100% correct wanted to get out of NJ since 1987 but couldn't due to marriage. Ended that in 1993, then I had to stay to care for my Mom with my Dad, and after she passed on Christmas Eve 2000 - I was here in Ocala, FL by June of 2001. Now I want to get the heck out of Ocala. this area is nice to look at, nice to live if you have a family and don't really do much other than go to church, and the occassional movie theater. The music scene has died along with the economy, and I have no idea other than Vegas that might STILL have a worthwhile entertainment business to get into.

Oh well - perhaps I'll figure it out someday. In the meantime, I'll keep Beta testing for Line 6. Perhaps they might listen to some of my thoughts and suggestions? Anything is possible - right?

Take care,

Neal

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 03:05:26 GMT

Neal,

The brainwashing you mention is pretty common in many companies, especially corporate America. I call it Koll-aide drinking. In many companies you have what I call Kool-aide drinkers, Kool-aide mixers and the brain dead.

I do not mean to sound harsh, but this is pretty common. I work for fortune 20 company for the last 11 years and this is the common thing I see. Don't dare disagree with what the company does as you could be shot down for even saying anything. It always cracks me up how many people NEVER read industry news or any news outside the company provided explanations. It is as if they are brain washed with mottos and such. Go rent the movie Office Space and you will understand it better!

I just recently quit (working my last week) to go to a smaller start up to get away from the attitude. What good is it to never see what is wrong and a better way to fix things. But some companies are what I call frozen in fear and live in denial.

I am not sure Line 6 could support their own stores, but setting up a demo area in large chains like GC could go a long way. They need to make the deals they need to push their technology and products. As far as the new PA, it looks interesting, but since I am not a working musician and have not done live sound in many many years it is out of my reach as to understand this market. It appears to me the product being at that price point will be challenged to be successful. So agree with you. I have to ask, who are they marketing this PA too?

The hole I see in the Line 6 product line from my perspective is they should have a smaller tube amp as this is a nice size market these days for home and studio. Most major amp makers have one these days like Blackstar, Fender, Dr Z, Marshall, etc. Yes they make the SS small modeling amps, but many players including myself are not in love with these. The current JTV line up could use some adjustment as no Floyd Rose on a shredder guitar? how about a Telecaster shape, a Bass, new Acoustics?

If they could get some name players playing the JTV guitars it would be helpful. They probably should just make a promo deal with some players like Fender, Gibson, etc.

So how did you end up in that part of Florida anyway? Did you hate NJ that much, hahaha? I have been in your part of Florida once driving thru to the Keys I think.

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 02:38:34 GMT

IF Line 6 can not make this easier and accessible, "World Domination" is just a Dream that is rigged... to fail.

I agree with nearly all you wrote and especially like this turn of phrase. Well done and bonus points for being clever to boot!

I made the suggestion that line 6 have Kiosks in the big chain stores and/or perhaps open their own store as you sighted Apple chose to do. Wow, did I get tons of crap for throwing that idea out there back in 2008!!!

Talking to some employees of Line 6 is like talking to a recorded brain washing message. These employees are so full of the company mottos, mantras, etc. that they have lost all power to think for themselves. At least that is how it seems to me. Perhaps it's the difference between NYC thinking vs. LA thinking. East coast vs. West coast??

Now Line 6 comes out with a truly revolutionary PA system that no one can afford even on payment plans with stores that offer payment plans. With what we've discussed here, how do you think the PA systems are going to fair? What store is going to stock even one COMPLETE system which would be a Console, a pair of top cabs, a pair of subs, and at least a pair of top cabs that act as monitors when turned on their side. That is exactly $9,299.93 + shipping costs. Know any working club band that has this kind of money to lay out for a PA? Know any PA guys who want to TRY this out for this price and MAYBE like how it works, then spend a small fortune just to ship it all back if it's not what it is advertised to be??? Personally, I'd be happy to try out just the console to see what IT can do compared to what I already have.

Well, if Line 6 ever decides to do what you & I seem to agree upon, I'd be willing to get hired to be one of the people who sets up and trains those who would be selling the products.

I guess this is just my "Dream". LOL

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 00:53:45 GMT

Neal,

The stores here carry Pods and pedals from Line 6 as well as the Spider amps. Not much else. I can see why some people do not even know they exist.

But I feel the same way about Guitar Center which I think is the Kmart of music stores when it comes to carrying higher-end Gretsch guitars or any decent arch tops, to mention just a few things. Kids don't play these or even know they exist if they visit Sam Ash or Guitar Center Stores. The scary part is many think a Gretsch guitar is those cheaply made boxes they see in the store. Same for an archtop.

Line 6 could help themselves a lot by having better store presence and making sure that the gear is setup properly for demos. Apple had the same type of issues until they trained the store personal and they fixed it when they opened their own stores. But the effort they made worked and they helped the brand and their products get accepted.

The HD500 presets absolutely stink for someone without prior experience to hear what the thing can do. I even returned my first one. Now let me explain that I am a video and network engineer and have tons of computer and software experience. I even worked in two recording studios when I was much younger and worked as a DJ for years. I am quite comfortable with gear. I started as an audio engineer. My entire working life has been in technology, so I am not afraid of it.

But the HD500 was a pain in the butt to get good sound. It was not until I got a DT25 that I finally heard what it could do. There is a lot to say about plugging a nice guitar into a nice tube amp and just playing. IF Line 6 can not make this easier and accessible, "World Domination" is just a Dream that is rigged... to fail.

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 00:27:28 GMT

Always do what makes YOU happy. I agree 100%

I am just frustrated by Line 6 having their head apparently buried in the sand about this topic, OR CHOOSE not to address it.

Digi - you remember Rich R. making the statement "World Domination"? How can a company have that as their mantra and not execute anything that might help them get closer to the goal??

I'll still keep using and buying their gear, but I'm not enough of a customer base to keep the company alive.

No one here has JTV or older Variax guitar except me.

I met ONE person in a Pink Floyd tribute that had a Vetta, but he had no idea how to get the most out of it. He "settled" for a few presets and never went any further. I even gave him a disc with all the patches I created over the past 8 years. He never bothered to even load them to try them out. Simply pathetic and incredibly lazy!!

NO ONE has ANY of the new gear. One guitarist that I jam with off and on had a POD XT, got rid of it to get an HD500, now he got rid of that because he couldn't figure out how to work with it. I once again offered a disc of my patches to get him started. He didn't even bother to take me up on that offer. Now he has a Peavey something or other.

I've done several demonstrations before some of my shows and although everyone is impressed with what I show them, not one wants to be bothered. Everything is "Too complicated". Really?? I used to be Marshall guy with a Les Paul plugged because my guitar heroes growing up played that combination. I didn't use much by way of FX, but I still played out, still got paid, and still had a great time. Now I've got all this gear that can do literally anything I can think of, copy any sound I hear and yet I do not get paid more, I do not get anything more than when I just had a simple guitar/amp set up.

I tried out a Vetta back in 2003 just like you had to try out your gear...MAIL ORDER. I am from NJ originally and I KNOW how many stores are where you are. It's almost unbelieveable that none of these store carry any of the Line 6 gear you mentioned. BUT I'll bet they have Beans and Spider amps, and FX pedals?!

This is pointless, so I'll stop typing now and go watch TV to numb my mind so I can try to become like the majority of the population in the USA...apathetic and lazy.

Take care,

Neal

Re: Is it just me.. or???

support@line6.com — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:39:35 GMT

I live near Paramus NJ, hardly the sticks. In fact a shoppers paradise with a Sam Ash and THREE Guitar Centers nearby. I have never seen a JTV of any kind in any of these mega stores. Never saw a DT amp either. I bought my DT25 and my Variaxes online unheard and unseen!

When I wanted to test out a DT25 before buying back in December, I checked to find out there was not ONE in NJ at either a Sam Ash or Guitar Center! No local music store had any either. Nearest store that had anything was in Manhattan. So you guys are not alone in not seeing this gear in a store. I ended up buying a DT25 from MF as they have a great return policy in case I did not like it.

I have never seen any local player around NJ yet in the clubs and shows I go to using a JTV, Variax or a DT amp yet. Living where I live you would have thought I would have. None of my friends own any of this gear.

So I say march to your own drummer and care less what others use.